Podcast Episode #25

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Our Discussion

How did Mark reverse honor and shame during the death of Jesus? To answer this question, Dr. Narry Santos will be joining us today to help us better understand honor and shame during the time of Christ. Dr. Santos has two PhDs, one in the New Testament and another in Philippine Studies, and currently works as the Assistant Professor of Practical Ministry and Intercultural Leadership at Tyndale University. He will utilize his knowledge to break down and examine the dynamic of honor-shame as presented in the gospel, and how Mark reverses honor and shame during the climax of his chapters. We will also speak on relativization versus the natural family, the transformation of values, and how to identify honor-shame reversal and its patterns. Join us as we take a look at how the New Testament reverses shame to bring honor to God!

In this episode, we talk about:

  • Honor-shame values during the time of Christ.
  • The meaning of relativization, and the positive impact of Jesus relativizing the family.
  • The significance behind transforming our values.
  • How Mark reverses honor and shame during the climax of Jesus’s death.
  • Identifying honor-shame reversal and its patterns in the gospel and other texts.

Meet Narry:

Narry F. Santos is Assistant Professor of Practical Ministry and Intercultural Leadership at the seminary of Tyndale University in Toronto, Canada and Vice President of the Evangelical Missiological Society Canada. He completed a PhD in New Testament from Dallas Theological Seminary (1994) and another PhD in Philippine Studies (including anthropology and psychology) from the University of the Philippines (2006). He wrote several books, including Family Relations in the Gospel of Mark (Peter Lang) and Slave of All: The Paradox of Authority and Servanthood in the Gospel of Mark (Sheffield Academic Press), edited books like Mission and Evangelism in a Secularizing World: Academy, Agency, and Assembly Perspectives from Canada (Pickwick Publications), and contributed chapters in edited books and academic journals. He currently serves as part-time Senior Pastor of Greenhills Christian Fellowship (GCF) Peel and GCF York. He recently planted Saddleback South Manila and was its pastor for three years. Before Saddleback Church, he ministered at GCF in different pastoral responsibilities for 20 years, including helping plant six churches in Canada and four in the Philippines


  • 0:00:00 Meet Dr. Narry Santos, Assistant Professor of Practical Ministry and Intercultural Leadership at Tyndale University and Vice President of the Evangelical Missiological Society!
  • 0:02:20 Who is your family?
  • 0:04:40 How do your two PhDs influence your work?
  • 0:07:25 What are some key points in your journey of learning about honor and shame?
  • 0:09:20 What were your motivations for writing your second book?
  • 0:10:30 How does your methodology differ from other works on honor-shame?
  • 0:13:00 What is the thesis of your book? How can it be misinterpreted?
  • 0:15:25 Explaining the ethical side of honor.
  • 0:17:15 What were the honor-shame values during the time of Christ?
  • 0:19:10 Understanding the phrase “blood is thicker than water” from an honor-shame perspective.
  • 0:20:30 What does “relativizing” mean? How does it relate to Chapter 3 of Mark?
  • 0:24:30 How does the ingroup language mark relations?
  • 01:25:40 Is Jesus advocating we throw away our natural family?
  • 0:28:30 Why is Jesus relativizing the family actually good for the family?
  • 0:30:10 How did Jesus relativize family honor in Chapter 1 of Mark?
  • 0:32:45 The practical effects of relativization.
  • 0:35:45 What is the significance of the transformation of our values?
  • 0:36:10 What are the challenges Jesus gives the disciplines to transform?
  • 0:42:05 How do you see honor-shame reversal in the climax of Mark?
  • 0:47:20 Is this honor-shame reversal unique to Mark?
  • 0:49:40 How can people identify honor-shame reversal more easily?
  • 0:54:25 How can these ideas help make the gospel relevant?
  • 1:00:20 What do you wish theology would learn from missions and what do you wish missions would learn from theology?
  • 1:03:00 What is your wish for missiology?
  • 1:03:50 What resources do you recommend for people to learn more?
  • 1:06:00 Do you have anything coming up?
  • 1:07:05 What final words do you have for the audience?

Resources & Links

Family Relations in the Gospel of Mark by Narry F. Santos

Reading Romans with Eastern Eyes by Jackson Wu

Honor, Shame, and the Gospel by Christopher Flanders

Misreading Scripture with Individualist Eyes by E. Randolph Richards

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